question about the "source"

An Eternal Now SG

http://www.budsas.org/ebud/whatbudbeliev/111.htm

...The second false view is nihilism or the view held by the nihilists who claim that there is no life after death. This view belongs to a materialistic philosophy which refuses to accept knowledge of mental conditionality. To subscribe to a philosophy of materialism is to understand life only partially. Nihilism ignores the side of life which is concerned with mental conditionality. If one claims that after the passing away or ceasing of a life, it does not come to be again, the continuity of mental conditions is denied. To understand life, we must consider all conditions, both mental and material. When we understand mental and material conditions, we cannot say that there is no life after death and that there is no further becoming after passing away. This nihilist view of existence is considered false because it is based on incomplete understanding of reality. That is why nihilism was also rejected by the Buddha. The teaching of kamma is enough to prove that the Buddha did not teach annihilation after death; Buddhism accepts 'survival' not in the sense of an eternal soul, but in the sense of a renewed becoming...

Herzog_Zwei SG

Then at ultimate level, there should not be even cause and effect present.

At relative level, rebirth cannot be even proven true but birth and death can be proven.

An Eternal Now SG

Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:

Then at ultimate level, there should not be even cause and effect present.

What talking you? How is this related to what we are discussing?

At relative level, rebirth cannot be even proven true but birth and death can be proven.

No, rebirth has been proven by uncountable people.

Buddha himself has seen rebirth, his uncountable disciples has seen rebirths, other religions' yogis also have recalled past lives, today there are many children who still recall past lives, adults who recall past lives through therapy, and meditation, and etc. There are also forummers here who have recalled their past lives. And not to forget there are many studies made that shows so much proof of rebirth. And the point of all this is, rebirth can be proven if you practise. Buddhism itself contains the scientific method to lead to all spiritual realisations, whether Enlightenment or even things like rebirth.

And, if memory serves, this topic has been discussed countless times Rolling Eyes

Herzog_Zwei SG

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

quote:

What talking you? How is this related to what we are discussing?

No, rebirth has been proven by uncountable people.

Buddha himself has seen rebirth, his uncountable disciples has seen rebirths, other religions' yogis also have recalled past lives, today there are many children who still recall past lives, adults who recall past lives through therapy, and meditation, and etc. There are also forummers here who have recalled their past lives. And not to forget there are many studies made that shows so much proof of rebirth. And the point of all this is, rebirth [b]can be proven if you practise. Buddhism itself contains the scientific method to lead to all spiritual realisations, whether Enlightenment or even things like rebirth.

And, if memory serves, this topic has been discussed countless times Rolling Eyes [/b]

1st statement:
If there is no self, there is no cause for a cause and hence no recipent of the effect.

2nd statement:
But do you realise that it is presented by people who have influence with asian culture only?

An Eternal Now SG

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

[quote]2nd statement:
But do you realise that it is presented by people who have influence with asian culture only?Obviously not. Western people equally have past life memories. Lots of them. In fact I mentioned before, alot of non-Buddhist and non-Hindus ang mohs in places like America believe in past lives due to many evidences presented to them, or memories, etc.

You think only Indian and Chinese children can remember past lives? I remember posting this before: Boy remembers Past Life Being Shot in WWII This boy, and his parents, are not Buddhists or Hindus. His parents did not believe in past lives until the evidences are presented to them right in front of their eyes.

Of course, there are lots more other such cases among westerners.

An Eternal Now SG

BTW u can disregard my earlier reply to u cos its a little out of context Mr. Green

But before I go any further, I need to ask you, first what is the relationship between loving kindness for others and aversion on others and other emotions?

What makes you links God and emotion and loving kindness?

Even if there is God, is it necessary that we must have loving kindness and emotions?

Isis SG

mmm Christian can feel love from the god, well that why some of my christian friends feel....

Is everything really from a god?

From a christian's point of view

An Eternal Now SG

Let the Christians answer this.

Anyone?

Herzog_Zwei SG

Technically, anything good and positive is from the biblical God from a christian's viewpoint. Anything bad or negative is from the Devil/Lucifer.

maggot SG

Having past life memories

Is it a good thing? Confused

An Eternal Now SG

Uh, dont mind I ask, what has it got to do with this topic?

TheGoodEarth SG

Whether Christian or other faith, I've heard my fair share of God's love, miracles, divine help, grace, answered prayers, and so forth. Interestingly, there are sessions organised precisely for such purpose or witnessing/sharing as they are called. I am sure the Buddhists said something like these too, except God (could be Buddha or Bodhisattvas), or some cosmic force for the Hindus.
I've always been sceptical. I get this feeling that once you are become a 'believer', you feel something different, like suddenly, life changed, fortune changed, the sun shines brighter and the likes. I attribute all these to psycholology.

Rebirth .... I supposed this is not new and has been discussed before. Being new here, let me say that the idea of 'rebirth' has been around a long before Buddha. However, rebirth is a actually a further development/refinement of 'after life'. If you study ancient history, the Chinese, the Egyptian and some others have elaborate preparations and preservation of the dead body for the after-life. In other words, there is death in this life, followed by 'rebirth' in another life.
Alternatively, there is this concept of soul. The physical body dies, but the soul lives on in another life, world, Heaven, Paradise, Pure Land, Cosmic, Eternity - whether these places are real or not.

If 'rebirth' is real, why is it not experienced or recalled easily by ordinary folks like you and me? Why is is not so common? How come there is no mass experience by all race, culture, and beliefs? I've not heard (at least personally) of Christians or Muslims relating their past lives.
How come I cannot see my past lives?

An Eternal Now SG

Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:

Rebirth .... I supposed this is not new and has been discussed before. Being new here, let me say that the idea of 'rebirth' has been around a long before Buddha. However, rebirth is a actually a further development/refinement of 'after life'. If you study ancient history, the Chinese, the Egyptian and some others have elaborate preparations and preservation of the dead body for the after-life. In other words, there is death in this life, followed by 'rebirth' in another life.

Yes, thats right.

Alternatively, there is this concept of soul. The physical body dies, but the soul lives on in another life, world, Heaven, Paradise, Pure Land, Cosmic, Eternity - whether these places are real or not.

And that is what Buddhism does not teach -- reincarnation. We teach rebirth happening every moment, but not a soul entity as a permanent self.

If 'rebirth' is real, why is it not experienced or recalled easily by ordinary folks like you and me? Why is is not so common? How come there is no mass experience by all race, culture, and beliefs? I've not heard (at least personally) of Christians or Muslims relating their past lives.
How come I cannot see my past lives?

It is more common than you think, but the time we are born we already forget our past lives memory. In fact a baby's ability to remember long memories are naturally less than us and therefore most memories will be forgotten. (Do you even still remember what you did when you were 1 year old?) I also remembered the scriptures mentioning several reasons why we lost our past lives memory, though I can't remember exactly what are they now. I think one of them is the pain and struggle the baby experience when entering the world.

But anyway, lots of people have remembered them again by various ways.

It is very possible to remember past lives. In fact there are many topics on past lives, and about remembering past lives, please refer to these previous forum topics which are already very well elaborated:

Belief in Reincarnation Tied to Memory Errors

why do people believe in past lives?

buddhism is alright but still faulty.....

what is buddhism evidence of reincarnation?

and many more

An Eternal Now SG

Buddhists don't emphasize supernatural, though we do not deny it.

But that's not what Buddhists aim for, supernatural powers, miracles, or even healings etc. We practise the dharma for Enlightenment, Wisdom, Liberation.

So, we do not do things like witnessing-miracles-sessions or stuff like that. Because to us, it is not really beneficial.

I've always been sceptical. I get this feeling that once you are become a 'believer', you feel something different, like suddenly, life changed, fortune changed, the sun shines brighter and the likes. I attribute all these to psycholology.

Nope. In Buddhism, it's not about "beliefs". It's about practise. If you practise, then you will be liberated, and blissful, and gain wisdom. And enlightenment. Lots of people have gained enlightenment. All these, liberation, bliss, enlightenment, are not just psychological states, but about insights. You can't get enlightened from psychology, but through practising the Dharma that Buddha taught.

TheGoodEarth SG

Allow me to pursue rebirth as I think it is a little complicated and also difficult to 'fetch'!
Some of my questions were not answered. Anyhow, I am more intrigue by this past lives:

But anyway, lots of people have remembered them again by various ways.
What are these?

It is very possible to remember past lives.
How?

Meanwhile, I will read up:

In fact there are many topics on past lives, and about remembering past lives, please refer to these previous forum topics which are already very well elaborated:

An Eternal Now SG

The topics should have addressed your questions Smile

GTG for now, gd nite.

Beyond Religion SG

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Buddhists don't emphasize supernatural, though we do not deny it.

But that's not what Buddhists aim for, supernatural powers, miracles, or even healings etc. We practise the dharma for Enlightenment, Wisdom, Liberation.

So, we do not do things like witnessing-miracles-sessions or stuff like that. Because to us, it is not really beneficial.

Yes... we may look very divine-like in others' eyes by being able to perform miracles etc., and we will feel very good if we consequently get venerated by the masses. But, as long as there remains one sentient being suffering in samsara, all these so called miracles will be nothing but mere theatrics.

To me, the greatest miracle is to be able to enlighten and liberate all beings from sufferings.

An Eternal Now SG

Anyway still can discuss this lah, since we all also mentioned about rebirth in this topic, somehow. Confused But try to create new topics next time so that the discussion won't go off-topic.

Having past life memories is neither good nor bad. (Relative truths here, btw Mr. Green ) Lots of people have them, my dharma teachers had them, and even a few forummers here was able to remember several past lives. They have very clear and vivid memories of their past lifes, not only one past lives, but many past lives.

Is it good? I would say, there is not very significant benefits, though sometimes one can understand one's situation better, in the case of Longchen (one of our forummers who had past life memories) who was able to trace happenings back to the karmic cause in a previous life. He was also able to trace from one lifetime to another lifetime, keep tracing backwards, to understand one's karmic tendencies and behaviors better.

However, it is not very important or necessary... Most important is to gain enlightenment, knowing past lives may help us understand things more, but provides no solution. Only through practising the dharma will we gain in wisdom, and gain liberation.

Recalling past lives does not lead to liberation, sometimes it leads to greater bondage and attachment. Just live your current life, don't bother too much about past and future. Focus on this life, that's enough. There's the Buddhist saying, if you want to know what you have been doing in your previous lives, look at your situation now. If you want to know your future lives, look at what you are doing now.

AndrewPKYap SG

Laughing Wise words... hope you take them to heart...

The discussion about the source of love... Buddhism has a better explanation for it than "it comes from God" but apparently it escapes the Buddhists here

An Eternal Now SG

Ya please explain, I believe you should have understandings on this Wink

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